Subject: 'austraLasia' #240

INTERVIEW WITH FR. WONG, KUPANG

Moses Pandin sdb

(edited by Fr. Jose Reinoso)

Dear confreres,

Fax received today!

I asked Bro. Moses Pandin, who left last Wednesday for Kupang, to interview

Fr. Wong. I intended this interview for the Salesian Bulletin. But I think

all of you will be desirous to know its contents as soon as possible.

However I ask for your discretion since Fr. Wong is still in danger. He

expresses his views quite frankly. The questions were aimed at letting him

relate his experience. Here it is.

Question. What was your most beautiful experience in this Timorese ordeal?

Answer. My most beautiful experience has been to be with simple people, to

live with them and to be able to offer some consolation to them by being

present among them.

Question. What was your worst experience?

Answer. I think the worst experience was to see those who were stealing our

things in Comoro (Note: Salesian House in Dili). Those who were supposed to

protect us were the very ones who were stealing our things such as the

police, the Brimob (PDN Indonesia). I found them without shame. I was just

in front of them, in the place where they were stealing our things. Even

though I was there they continued doing it. I really felt that they had lost

their dignity as men, as human persons. I really felt pity for them. That

was my worst experience: to see persons that shamelessly, without dignity,

did things that were unthinkable.

Question: Did you experience the closeness of the Salesians? In what ways?

Answer. The Salesians among ourselves we were very, very united. We didn’t

sleep for many nights and we did it together. We tried to organize ourselves

in shifts but in reality we were always awake during the whole night, and

even the whole day. We tried to do our best together for our refugees.

Regarding Salesians in other places in Timor, there was no possibility of

working together. Although long before all this mess started we had some

meetings asking ourselves what were our possibilities and what could we do

together. However we did not make any concrete resolution until the problem

came and then we found ourselves cut completely from one another: Comoro,

Baucau, los Palos. Until now I am still worrying about the situation.

Because there is no communication. There are plenty of rumors but

unconfirmed.

Lastly I would give special mention to the confreres of Australia,

especially to Fr. Julian Fox, SDB with whom I am communicating through

e-mail. I found it very easy especially the days in preparation for the

Consultation. But August 27,28,29 were already very dangerous. I suppose my

last e-mail to Fr. Julian Fox was on August 29. He would disseminate any

information I sent him. I gave the title "Bits and pieces of what is

happening in Timor, by Fr. Wong". I felt we were united.

Question. Give your opinion on the way the situation was handled (UN,

Authorities)

Answer. UN excellently handled the situation in preparation for the

Consultation, I think. They did their best so that the people could vote

according to their belief. In spite of the accusation that UN was biased, I

personally feel that they really did a good job. They worked hard and even

at the risk of their lives and at the cost of many sacrifices. The

responsibility of what happened falls on the authorities of Indonesia

because I believe that whatever the soldiers, the military, the police and

militias did, and are still doing, was done on orders coming from the main

Office and main Authorities of Indonesia. I would not say that the orders

came from all of them but the orders were coming from that source.

At the least, the thing is confusing because I don’t understand why they

want to destroy Timor and the Timorese. This is still the big question mark:

why?

Perhaps it was a global tension that gripped the whole government when the

big majority of Timorese chose independence and not integration. But really

I do not find any human or logical reason why the government would want to

destroy what it had built after saying through President B.J. Habibie that

the government was willing to give independence if the Timorese chose it.

Recent events have shown the contradiction by creating militias, killing a

lot of Timorese, destroying a lot of houses and even churches. This is what

gives me preoccupation: the authorities especially those of Indonesia.

Regarding the authorities in other countries, I think they have become a

saving factor to lessen the atrocities made by some officers, some soldiers

in Timor during and after the consultation. They prevented perhaps a lot of

more killings and a lot of troubles. The different embassies, especially

those of Chile, Spain, Australia and even the Philippines showed concern for

the wellbeing of people without being biased in regard to those who were

pro-independence or pro-integration.

Question. What are your sentiments now?

Answer. Well, first of all I am happy I lived this experience. It is a

difficult way of living with the refugees, of being one with them, ordinary

people, offering them some help without being able to do many things. It was

just being present among them. This is a positive sentiment.

In second place, a negative sentiment: the feeling of insecurity. Just like

the people, we don’t know what is going to happen because until now,

although we have changed place, we are still in Kupang and we are still

threatened and intimidated, this includes us religious. After hearing, for

instance, that they killed already several priests in Dili they are still

haunting other priests even here. I feel insecure about that.

Lastly, I feel sad because of the confusion that is going on. There are

several questions unanswered. For instance, why so many people, thousands of

peoples, have been displaced when these people have not done anything wrong.

Even more, perhaps they don’t even know what is pro-independence and

pro-integration. And yet we can say that those who are the big bosses are in

very nice places, they may even be out of the country enjoying themselves

while the victims are the simple people who have been relocated, have been

displaced from one place to another, and at the same time continuously

intimidated concerning something they have not done, but which has been done

by people on the top. This has created such a big confusion. The victims are

the very, very simple people especially the children and the women, innocent

victims of this confusion, of this disorder, of this stupidity, whether it

might be for a political reason or not.

All this makes me very, very sad and I still worry, as I said before, about

the situation especially regarding our Salesians in Baucau, Los Palos,

Fatumaca and Venilale. I have no news of them.

Question. Do you have any regrets? If any, which?

Answer. Regarding myself I have no regrets, may be regarding the situation,

yes. One thing I regret, in general, is the fact of having left Dili.

Perhaps we could have stayed, but we were forced by circumstances. We had no

choice; we had to leave Dili. I said that we could have stayed because up to

now the Salesian Sisters are still there and it seems that they have been

protected by the military. On the other hand if we had not left Dili we

might have experienced more horrible things: loss of life due to terrorizing

and intimidation.

One regret may also be lack of faith. There have been moments in which I

lost my calmness and I became very, very afraid. This may be normal for a

human being: fear of death. It could also be lack of faith. If I had had

stronger faith I might have helped more people to keep calm in very, very

strenuous moments.

Question. What did you observe in the people around you?

Answer. They are very, very kind and affectionate towards us. They depend

too much on us. In fact, I was telling Fr. Rolando (Salesian Priest,

companion of Fr. Andy in the camp) that little by little we have to set

ourselves apart in order to educate them to be more independent, not to be

always afraid if we are not around. If you ask people around here to which

group do they belong they will always answer to Don Bosco’s group. That

means that they are really dependent on us. It is common to hear people say

that they will always do what the priest says or we will go where the priest

goes. . I feel the people are very close to us and very united with us.

Question. How do you think this experience is going to affect you, affect

the people?

Answer. Well, this experience is going to affect me in this way: I will look

at the things of this world in a more concrete way. I am just thinking of

the many things I just had to leave behind in Dili. Due to the emergency

evacuation I was not able to bring along many things. My conviction was

reinforced: I can live a very simple life. There is no need of having to owe

many things in order to be active in our work. Another thing is this: I was

able to see this experience in the light of the Gospel. It is a concrete

opportunity to continue to love and to pray for those who have done evil to

many of us, who have terrorized us, who have tried to kill us. It is a time

to be true to the Lord. I think this is affecting me very much, although it

is not very easy. These ideas I also communicate them to others who have

experienced the same traumatic moments

Regarding the people I suppose and believe that when the experience will be

over their faith will be deeper and closer to Christ through us, through our

presence, through the assistance of the Church, which is giving it to the

end. In fact, I heard many people saying that up to now it is only the

Church, the Catholic Church, the Bishops who are giving them consolation in

terms of food and moral support, although the government is doing a lot but

the people do not seem to appreciate it very much because of the painful

experiences they have lived under this government.

Note: There was need of a work of interpretation. If there are mistakes they

are mine

Jose Reinoso

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